And niobium carbide contains very little chromium. S110V is essentially S90V with more C, Cr, Co, Mo, and Nb, and it is difficult to think of scenarios where adding more of those elements would lead to reduced edge retention. What austenitizing temperature did you use? I didn’t know how realistic is Jmatpro but I’m sure that 0.5% carbon should secure 55-60 HRc hardess . Also, the chromium “in solution” to contribute to corrosion resistance was actually improved in S90V relative to the earlier S60V by careful control over the carbon and vanadium content, despite the bulk chromium being lower. However, as explained above with S90V, balancing vanadium and chromium is challenging to obtain a high combination of wear resistance and corrosion resistance. vasco MA which contains only 0.5% C reach a maximum of 62 HRc while the M2 can reach 65-67 HRc due to presence of about 10% volume of undissolved carbides . If you frequently use your knife to slice up cardboard, there may not be a better steel than CPM-S110V. I am glad that I bought this one. Sie ist lediglich nicht mehr fein geschlossen. Manufacturing Technology - MM. Micro Melt Maxamet Alloy can be supplied as steel plate/ sheet, round steel bar, steel tube/pipe, steel stripe, steel billet, steel ingot, steel wire rods. Making high corrosion resistance steels with high chromium in solution also leads to more retained austenite, as explained in this article on Vanax steel. $216.00. I tested two conditions of S110V, one austenitized at 2050 and another at 2150°F, with both tempered at 500°F. Aber persönliche Erfahrungen und eine Sammlung detaillierter Informationen zu S110V. This isn't a knife to beat on or put any lateral pressure on. Both are capable of very high levels of hardness. They have the same blade grinds, and they are heat treated and processed by the same manufacturer, of course. In my original edge retention article I speculated that perhaps the smaller carbide size was the difference and I made some comparisons with the size of the abrasive particles used in the testing. However, this steel has high hardness and corrosion resistance which can mean excess retained austenite which sometimes leads to inflated toughness values. I have not had hardness testing done on the S90V or S110V, only on the Maxamet, but I assume that Spyderco has a similar hardness level in both S90V and S110V. (from my limited experience and the specific design goals for … My Native 5 in Maxamet is the only one of my 3 Native 5’s that I have had Rockwell tested and it came in at 67 HRC. I do emphasize with the guy who chipped his blade, but I do find Maxamet to be less fragile than S110V. I didn’t mention clogging of the nozzle in this article as that is not the only issue. S110V is a powder metallurgy stainless tool steel with very high wear resistance. But for simple slicing tasks, this knife will go on for a seriously long time. All PM2s are great at EDC tasks. The results of these … Your email address will not be published. Not as sharp as steels like AUS8, but pretty sharp. $236.00. $305.00. The Maxamet steel in considered as a “Super Steel”, So it’s a High-end Alloy steel, with an uncommon chemical composition, but I can say that the closest one to it is the CPM S110V(even if it’s stainless steel), in exception of wear resistance; the Maxamet is a great match for the S110v in edge retention, hardness, wear-resistance and price range which is between 100-200 Usd. Few steels can approach this level of hardness while remaining usable in cutlery applications. Opus™ $218.00 SALE. One change to S110V was a reduction in Nb from 3.5% to 3%. In heat treatments of S30V, S35VN, S45VN, and SPY27, an increase in austenitizing temperature was found to increase both hardness and toughness, so this result would be consistent with that. This does not appear to be an issue of experimental variability as none of the tests performed on S110V resulted in as high values as the average result of S90V (each was tested 3 times). Sharpness: Sharpening Maxamet steel, unfortunately, will be a hard task, it’s very hard steel, so sharpening won’t be easy, also for grinding if you’re a knife maker you won’t enjoy grinding Maxamet steel. Below I have plotted the steel also in relation to other stainless steels along with a hardness-toughness trendline from S60V. Und nach meinen Recherchen spricht einiges dafür, daß S110V zäher als S90V ist, also etwas weniger zu Ausbrüchen neigen sollte. So if you intend to use in humid environment, you better take care of your knife, other than that it’s a great steel of an EDC knife. Chromium, Vanadium, Niobium, and Molybdenum are all “ferrite stabilizers” which means that they raise the temperature at which austenite will form, because they stabilize the typical room temperature phase of steel and iron called ferrite. $205.00. Maxamet’s distinguishing metallurgical characteristic is the high carbon content (2.15%) and the inclusion of 10% Tungsten. This will be relevant to the toughness discussion later on. P'Kal™ G-10 Black. With S110V having quite a bit of each of those elements the steel cannot be fully hardened when it has no cobalt in it. Pacific Salt™ 2 Black Blade. Auch von einer Ruinierung der Schneide kann nicht die Rede sein. Both of these steels are a real bear to sharpen up! 1 year ago. FYI the maxamet manix is a lightweight without liners and is pinned. Understand that a keen edge requires a dimension of around 100nm (1/10 of a micron) and the vanadium-rich carbides in Maxamet, or S110V, or even the chromium carbides in ZDP189 are 1-2 microns in size. That method has its own issues such as many carbides clumping together, in general PM steels have a more uniform microstructure. $230.00 . The Spyderco Para Military 2 - What more needs to be said? $200.00. They have the same blade grinds, and they are heat treated and processed by the same manufacturer, of course. But for simple slicing tasks, this knife will go on for a seriously long time. $250.00. Corrosion Resistance: Corrosion resistance is always related to the amount of Chromium in the steel, the Maxamet has a low amount of (4% compared to 12-14% in the stainless steels), which makes not great steel for corrosion resistance. This isn't a knife to beat on or put any lateral pressure on. Para Military™ 2 Left Hand G-10 Black . all powder metallurgy fabricated by hot isostatic pressure which is sooo expensive , adding a ball milling step just add a little to the cost . Each knife comes without scales or … Or maybe they thought it gave a bit more “factor of safety” to ensure full austenitization would be possible. adding niobium carbide “if all regarding problems solved” to this steel can push hardness/edge retention to a very high numbers . Once the carbides have formed in the melt they are significantly larger than if they form during solidification of the powder, reducing toughness. Native® 5 Salt® $186.00. Eine extreme Legierung mit unglaublichen Härtewerten und einer atemberaubenden Schnitthaltigkeit. In an attempt to clear out some of my unused knives, I’m putting up some of my Spyderco Mule Team blades. There are other elements that can stabilize austenite as well, notably carbon, nickel, and manganese, though those elements also increase retained austenite. The Mule Team was set up with identical knife blade blank designs in different steels in an attempt to compare apples to apples when testing the knives. Manufacturing Technology - MM. That aside, the Manix is … Spyderco Native 5 Lightweight Dunkelblau Klappmesser Taschenmesser C41PDBL5 CPM-S110V 4,4 von 5 ... vs the Sage 5, but not enough to stick with the lock back. S110V and M390/20CV/204P do have higher Cr in solution than S45VN. The patent for the steel was first filed in 2006 by inventors Alojz Kajinic, Andrzej Wojcieszynski, and Maria Sawford, all of Crucible Steel. Matching 316 corrosion resistance while also reaching 60+ Rc would be very difficult even with cobalt. I tested S45VN in my 1% saltwater spray corrosion test. electroslag, forged ring/ … Spyderco Para Military 2 Knife. The Manix 2 LW is available at most retailers for around $80.00. In an alloy, Tungsten contributes to the harden-ability, and with this much Tungsten it’s no surprise that Spyderco hardened Maxamet up to 67-68 RC. Manufacturing Technology - MM. In Crucible’s wear resistance testing of the original S110V, they show the following chart for wear resistance, that appears to show an improvement over S90V: However, if you plot those values versus hardness it becomes apparent that the two steels have the same wear resistance: So Crucible’s data shows that there was no improvement in wear resistance from S90V to S110V, which lines up relatively well with our edge retention testing. Same techniques and tools – DMT plates, ceramic rods, diamond paste strops. I swap the parts around. The knife looks in fine condition all over with an even grind on both sides of the blade. If the problem of adding Niobium is just clogging atomization why they didn’t just use larger nozzles ? The pocket clip, like all PM2 and Para3 clips is just terrible. I would estimate more like 0.3% carbon would be the limit with that much chromium. I have 2 spydercos in 110 and maxamet as well, and they have crisp edges as well. I can get the S90 much sharper than the S110. Buy Spyderco Native 5 Signature Folder Knife with 2.95" CPM S30V Black Steel Blade and Black FRN Handle - CombinationEdge - C41PSBBK5: Pocket Knives & Folding Knives - Amazon.com FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases I have two Spydercos in S110 and a Benchmade in S90. Native® 5 FRN Pink. I have seen almost no discussion of the change in composition, and I think most people are unaware that it ever changed. I have the Maxamet LW version, the pink S30v, the Satin blade natural G10 with M4, and the original (discontinued) G10 with liners and S35vn. Both of these steels are a real bear to sharpen up! I did a large number of edge retention experiments which were summarized in this article, and I also added M398 which was discussed here. This makes sense because of the lower carbide content of S90V, while the smaller carbides of S110V provides better toughness than S125V despite the similar carbide content. I will use “0888” and “0888MAX” interchangeably throughout this article except for when specifically discussing the steel below. If you’re worried about the steel (my experience seems to be an outlier), Spyderco also offers the Manix 2LW in CPM-S110V for around $35 more. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). But, If you’re a Diver, Hunter, Kitchen Chef, or you use your knife in humid places, and you’re looking for premium steel, I wouldn’t recommend the Maxamet I would instead go for the S110V stainless steel. You will also see I have two compositions listed for S110V, one labeled “patent” and one labeled “final.” The initial version of S110V was modified leading to the version that we have today. S110V is a very interesting steel because of the innovations that went into its development, including a niobium addition for improved carbide structure and corrosion resistance, and cobalt addition to ensure it could be heat treated despite the excellent corrosion resistance. $305.00. I prefer the S35vn blah on the LW scales. You’ll pay for it though, at roughly 1.5x the price. The M390 offers better toughness, corrosion resistance and it’s a bit easier to sharpen compared to the Maxamet, but for the edge retention Maxamet is the best. Maxamet’s distinguishing metallurgical characteristic is the high carbon content (2.15%) and the inclusion of 10% Tungsten. but the hardness is limited to only ~ 35 HRc . Para™ 3 G-10 Black/Black Blade. $200.00. The blade features a full-flat grind, a distal taper, and an understated wedge. Toughness: Due to his high hardness, it has low toughness. But S30 at least eventually gets sharp, S110 never does (for me). Spyderco Military Left Hand Black G10 Plain Edge Satin C36GPLE . Here is the datasheet. All of this in combination with the powder metallurgy technology gives S90V a relatively fine microstructure for good toughness along with high wear resistance from the high vanadium content. The Griptilian is comfortable but it feels totally different in your hands versus the PM2. In fact the revised datasheet shows all of the same data for corrosion resistance, hardness, and wear resistance despite the fact that the change in composition was relatively substantial. Checkout Deals of the Day on Amazon, What is the hardness(HRC) of Maxamet steel, Best scout carry knife with horizontal Sheath. The reduction in Nb may have led to the other changes in the steel. Opus™ $218.00 SALE. You can see that the carbon in solution is similar across the three grades, meaning each would achieve similar hardness. This was not necessarily a new discovery; it was long known in austenitic stainless steels that high Mo improved “pitting resistance,” and steels intended for seawater applications typically need high Mo. Elmax. Spyderco Para 3 - Partially Serrated . And other questions). It’s was a belt for knives with a different chemical composition, it has a high volume of Tungsten and high in carbon which is revolutionary in the knife industry. If you are unfamiliar with the Para Military 2, this will help you get a better understanding of one of the most popular knife designs in the past 10 years. For example, S30V had increased Mo over the earlier S90V/S60V for improved corrosion resistance, and that trend continued thereafter with other Crucible products. MAXAMET and S110V both share a low toughness, Maxamet offers better edge retention while the S110V offers better Corrosion resistance. Manufacturing Technology - MM. My guess is few heats of the original composition were ever produced, so experiments on that version are mostly academic at this point. Get a free guide on Knife Sharpening to find out how you can achieve more. Although Maxamet isn't stainless, but at the same time Maxamet is tougher compared to Crucible CPM S110V steel, which can result in better edge holding ability, and cutting performance with the right geometry and heat treatment. MSRP: $295.00 Was: $295.00 Our Price: $206.50. So I was I the same position as you and did many kinds of research about the Maxamet steel, and I answered many questions that may be very useful for you (What is it? Native® 5 G-10 Black. Die Zähigkeit ist angemessen hoch, jedoch auf Kosten der Korrosionsbeständigkeit (nicht rostfrei). I do emphasize with the guy who chipped his blade, but I do find Maxamet to be less fragile than S110V. But I still don’t know for sure why S110V wasn’t as good as S90V in testing. I have asked current Crucible metallurgist Bob Skibitski as well as the main inventor on the patent, Alojz Kajinic, and neither knew why the change was made as they were not directly involved with it. There are no knife steels with corrosion resistance equal to 316, perhaps Vanax or LC200N approaches 304 but it depends on what type of test is being performed. The cobalt content was increased from 2 to 2.5%, likely based on updated estimates of how much austenite stabilization is necessary after the changes to Nb, Cr, and Mo. Maxamet. The Griptilian is comfortable but it feels totally different in your hands versus the PM2. I'm still curious to see a custom knife made out of Maxamet though. Auch von einer Ruinierung der Schneide kann nicht die Rede sein. $216.00. Para Military™ 2 G-10 Dark Gray Maxamet. The standard blade steel of the Native 5 is CPM S30V stainless steel, but Spyderco has expanded that offering with additions like super high-grade CPM-S110V and Maxamet steels. Instead, the inventors of S110V used cobalt, which is an austenite stabilizer at high temperatures but does not increase retained austenite when quenching to martensite, unlike Ni and Mn. This improvement in corrosion resistance was expected based on the modifications with Nb and Mo that were described earlier. Maxamet is a powder steel from Carpenter, an American steel company. This choice comes down to how important corrosion resistance is to the application. The Mule Team was set up with identical knife blade blank designs in different steels in an attempt to compare apples to apples when testing the knives. $160.00. S90V was patented around 1996, the major innovation over previous steels was a reduction in Cr down to 14% which led to the formation of more vanadium carbide for a given amount of vanadium. Find out how you can achieve more! Maxamet ist der neueste Pulverstahl von Carpenter (auch bekannt als CarTech). It could be that Crucible decided that the niobium was too close to the danger zone. With that said, the difference between the 2 is that the 0888 is uncoated and comes with a composite S110V and 14C28N blade, while the 0888MAX is black DLC coated and approximately half of the 0888MAX knives feature Maxamet steel, and the other half have M390 steel bl… Different steels will transform to austenite at different temperatures. Both are ridiculously difficult to sharpen. Its an extreme alloy with insane hardness and tremendous edge retention while still retaining a reasonable amount of toughness but at the expense of corrosion resistance (it’s not stainless). The s110v steel is noticeably sharper than my s30v blade is out of the boxes. The steel has good properties including high edge retention and corrosion resistance along with decent toughness. If the carbides form in the liquid they are much larger then if they form during solidification of the powder. The primary difference is out-of-this-world edge retention at the cost of a minimal reduction in toughness. This is exactly why I don’t evaluate production knives to compare steels. It makes a good lock up and closing sound to the blade. regarding the problem of formation of large carbide particles , isn’t ball milling considered the most effective way to refine the carbides down to optimum size for edge retention/toughness combination ? All of the following experiments were performed on the later version of S110V, as that is all that is available to purchase. Whether this was due to a problem that was observed in production or simply being cautious I am not sure. S110V's data sheet mentions, for example, that it has better corrosion resistance than S90V. However, Crucible’s testing was with the original S110V which, as I described before, would have a greater proportion of NbC and VC carbides for wear resistance. However, the patent for S110V specifically calls out 154CM as a basis of design with its 14Cr-4Mo, providing good corrosion resistance with less Cr, and that can be seen in the initial version of S110V with 14Cr-3.5Mo. Von Gesichtsrasur war ja ausdrücklich nicht die Rede. Native® 5 G-10 Dark Blue CPM S110V. and again adding fine carbides will adds to both hardness and edge resistance . The Mo content of M390 is lower, however, so it is difficult to predict how things balance out when comparing higher Cr vs higher Mo. However, there is a very specific reason that cobalt is found in S110V. Because Crucible already had steels S90V and S125V prior to S110V we have to discuss briefly the history of those steels. using 5% Ni instead gives Ms of about -66°C (-87°F) . Spyderco Native 5 Lightweight Dunkelblau Klappmesser Taschenmesser C41PDBL5 CPM-S110V 4,4 von 5 ... vs the Sage 5, but not enough to stick with the lock back. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. I have a spreadsheet of all of the heat treatments I have done in the past along with ThermoCalc estimates of elements in solution. Wear Resistance: the wear resistance is excellent, due to the Tungsten, Vanadium, and Carbon, the Maxamet offers a great wear resistance. If you’re interested in the Maxamet steel for your knife, and still have doubts, I would like to assure you that’s it’s a great steel for your knife, depending on your usage, its has an exceptional edge retention and excellent wear resistance, but it’s low on corrosion resistance, so if you’re an EDC user (you like to have a tactical knife on you, for opening boxes and canes or whatever your bare hands can’t handle) it’s a great knife for you! As a rule, the harder the steel, the easier it breaks, so the Maxamet steel is very hard steel that can break very fast, but it’s tough enough to handle some beating, damaging work. The Maxamet steel in considered as a “Super Steel”, So it’s a High-end Alloy steel, with an uncommon chemical composition, but I can say that the closest one to it is the CPM S110V(even if it’s stainless steel), in exception of wear resistance; the Maxamet is a great match for the S110v in edge retention, hardness, wear-resistance and price range which is between 100-200 Usd. Yes, it does, it’s not a stainless steel Knife (It has only 4% of Chromium in it), so if you use it as a kitchen knife, hunting knife, or diving knife, make sure to take care of it to keep it in shape. $250.00. ... S110V. S110V and M390/20CV/204P do have higher Cr in solution than S45VN. For example, S90V edge retention is closer to M398 when at the same hardness. These two factors mean that using niobium instead of vanadium can lead to a steel with high wear resistance from hard niobium carbides, while having high corrosion resistance because there is little interaction between chromium and niobium, leaving the chromium alone to contribute to corrosion resistance. These heat treatments all included a cryo step after quenching. Although Maxamet isn't stainless, but at the same time Maxamet is tougher compared to Crucible CPM S110V steel, which can result in better edge holding ability, and cutting performance with the right geometry and heat treatment. It’s high-speed tool steel made by @CarpenterTechnology. And in the more recent comparison directly with M398, S110V again performed similarly. I gotta ask what your hardness test results were. P'Kal™ G-10 Red Trainer. In an alloy, Tungsten contributes to the harden-ability, and with this much Tungsten it’s no surprise that Spyderco hardened Maxamet up to 67-68 RC. Regardless, the development of S30V and S125V meant that Crucible metallurgists were well aware that Mo could improve corrosion resistance with the same level of chromium. Although Maxamet isn't stainless, but at the same time Maxamet is tougher compared to Crucible CPM S110V steel, which can result in better edge holding ability, and cutting performance with the right geometry and heat treatment. I used Jmatpro software to calculate a steel with the same compostion of 316 stainless steel : 18%Cr + 2%Mo but with replacement of nickel with only 5% cobalt and 0.5% carbon . So the amount of Ni and Mn needs to be kept to relatively low levels so that a good combination of hardness and corrosion resistance can be obtained. The patent for S110V and the original datasheet released in September 2008 (I archived it here) is the original composition labeled as “patent” in the composition table. If more corrosion resistance is required then S110V is the way to go. my original corrosion resistance experiments. I won’t buy S110 anymore even though I admit it is good on paper. Native® 5 Salt® $186.00. (This is not heat-related). $265.00. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Because niobium is a strong carbide former, it wants to form carbides at very high temperatures, often in the liquid steel. Perhaps they identified high Mo as an issue as well, such as difficulty in annealing or excessive hardenability leading to cracking during cooling after forging. Go buy one for yourself, and everyone you know, as a Christmas present. Another benefit of a partial replacement of vanadium with niobium is that the carbide size is reduced. If you frequently use your knife to slice up cardboard, there may not be a better steel than CPM-S110V. Required fields are marked *. Pacific Salt™ 2. However, I have some speculation about why the composition was changed. But not S110. In Stock . The reasoning and test results seem totally convincing, but I can imagine companies preferring to stick with the steel makers reccomended heat treatments. Combined, these features offer a distinctive look and exceptional edge geometry. That article explores a lot of aspects about cobalt because there isn’t much of a good reason to be in VG10 at all. I have 3 spyderco Native 5’s in S110V, S90V and in Maxamet. With S110 you have to battle burrs just like S30. Read all 5 Reviews » Paramilitary 2 Series. The high chromium affects the amount of vanadium carbide that is formed, and the high vanadium actually promotes the formation of chromium carbide, dropping corrosion resistance and toughness. Maxamet is the latest powder steel from Carpenter (aka CarTech). Para™ 3 G-10 Dark Gray Maxamet. CPM-S110V exhibits many of the same qualities as S90V. I'm still curious to see a custom knife made out of Maxamet though. However, a revised version of the steel was released, and the datasheet was revised in July 2010. CPM-S110V exhibits many of the same qualities as S90V. If there is any steel in Crucible’s line up that is likely to inherent the mantle of “awesome all around performer” from S35VN (which, in turn, took it from S30V), it will be this steel (or one yet released). FYI the maxamet manix is a lightweight without liners and is pinned. Since Nb improves corrosion resistance by helping the Cr go further, they may have attempted to compensate for the reduction in Nb by increasing the bulk Cr from 14% to 15.25%. The pocket clip, like all PM2 and Para3 clips is just terrible. $255.00. The changes were likely made to improve “manufacturability,” such as issues with gas atomization, forging, or annealing of the steel. That said, S30V is a great steel! Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! $230.00 . Ball milling is used to refine carbides when they are added directly to powder, such as adding tungsten carbide to steel powder prior to HIPing. Spyderco Paramilitary 2 vs Benchmade Griptilian : It’s no secret the Griptilian is one of my favorites but overall the PM2 is simply a better knife. The Spyderco Para Military 2 - What more needs to be said? I don’t know of any other powder metallurgy steels that even have as much as the 3% in the current version of S110V. This uses a standard rectangular knife ground to 0.015″ prior to putting a final edge of 15 dps with a 400 grit CBN matrix stone. As you can notice, it has only 4.75% of Chromium, which means its not stainless steel, and it’s very high in Vanadium and Tungsten, which makes a tough alloy with excellent wear resistance. Maybe 0.4% if the effect of cobalt is linear to increase Ms. Also be careful that all of that is in solution at the austenitizing temperature you calculated for. Your email address will not be published. However, niobium is a “stronger” carbide former than vanadium, meaning it can form niobium carbide even in the presence of high amounts of chromium. the effect of cobalt on raising martensite start temperature inspires me an idea . You’ll pay for it though, at roughly 1.5x the price. Native® 5 FRN Dark Blue CPM S110V. The test produces a number for each steel of rope cuts made, so steels can be placed in a hierarchy where the interested person can get a decent idea of where one steel might sit against another. $217.00. $295.00. To put S110V into context, we should compare the composition of the steel with previous Crucible products to see how the evolution led to S110V. The primary difference is out-of-this-world edge retention at the cost of a minimal reduction in toughness. Native® 5 FRN Dark Blue CPM S110V. Native® 5 G-10 Dark Blue CPM S110V. I previously wrote about cobalt additions in this article about VG10. The carbide volume of S110V is closer to S125V which is significantly coarser. P'Kal™ G-10 Red Trainer. For reference, steels like S110V and ZDP 189 are taken up to the low 60s (maybe as high as 65 for ZDP-189). There was a somewhat surprising and little discussed composition change with S110V, for mostly unknown reasons (though probably related to manufacturing). Although Maxamet isn't stainless, but at the same time Maxamet is tougher compared to Crucible CPM S110V steel, which can result in better edge holding ability, and cutting performance with the right geometry and heat treatment.
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